Recently appointed Country Office Director for China and Mongolia of the International Labor Organization (ILO) Claire Courteille-Mulder delved into ILO’s ongoing operations, the draft bill on labor, and child labor in the following interview. You were appointed Country Office Director for China and Mongolia in February. How are you settling into your new position? What have you done in this period? I’m actually based in Beijing. The ILO office in Beijing covers two countries – Mongolia and China. I have been in China until now. This is my first visit to Mongolia because I couldn’t leave China due to some issues related to visa. I took office in March and I had to stay in China for the visa questioning. I’m visiting from May 19 to 24. What is ILO’s main focus in Mongolia? Mongolia has been a member of ILO for 50 years. This year is actually the 50th anniversary. Over the 50 years, there was a transition from a socialistic economy to a market economy. What the ILO has been trying to do in these years was to accompany the government of Mongolia in that transition, particularly from the labor and employment side. We’ve been involved in the reform of the Labor Law. Another thing we have been trying to do since Mongolia became an ILO member is to involve the social partners in discussions related to national policies on employment and social issues. What we call now the jargon, the tripartism – the government labor industry in this case – is having workers and employees working together on social issues and having social dialogue. What is your impression of Mongolia's labor situation? Have you had the chance to see the ongoing protest for a wage increase at Sukhbaatar Square? Yes, I did. On Monday morning, I met with the minister of labor and social protection and on Wednesday morning, with Parliament members to discuss the draft labor law that is currently being discussed at Parliament. We also had the opportunity to meet with social partners – workers and employers. The demonstration came across in different meetings as an issue. I was happy that the Ministry of Labor and Social Protection has set up a tripartite working group to discuss the content of the revision in the law with social partners. In a way, it is a testimony of tripartism, this way of working together and involving each party. I take this as an achievement, particularly because this draft law that is being discussed was actually discussed at a tripartite perspective, including the views of the workers and employers. It doesn’t mean it’s easy to find compromise. Of course, there are disagreements such as the demonstration although it isn’t connected to the Labor Law. Disagreements are a part of the process. That’s how you get to compromise. You have to disagree to understand everybody’s position and then reach a consensus, which is what we have been trying to promote. I’d like your personal standpoint on this issue. Do you think demonstrating is the optimal way to get a pay rise? I come from an organization that is based on social dialogue and tripartism and strongly believes dialogue and tripartism can and is the solution or at least leads to a solution on many issues. What I can tell you about the demonstration at this stage is that we strongly advise workers, employers and the government get together around a roundtable and find a way out. I’m not going to tell if asking for 10 percent, 20 percent or 30 percent raise is right or wrong. It is up to the social partners to find a solution to this problem. How has the Labor Law been revised in the draft bill? What was ILO’s role in its drafting process? Our role in the revision of the draft law has been to first of all, make sure that the new bill will be in conformity with international labor standards. Mongolia has ratified 20 ILO conventions in total. These conventions create some obligations for the government of Mongolia. A very important point for us was to make sure this revision of the law would be aligned with the commitments the government took when it ratified the conventions. Our recommendations have been along this line because this is where we’re coming from. The other aspect was to make sure that social partners are involved and that they would have the opportunity to express their view. This has been done with different tripartite groups we created. Also, we focused on helping Mongolia move to and have a level that is fit for purpose in a new setting, a new context, and new economic situation. There are challenges arising from not only the transition to a market economy but also many other challenges that are affecting Mongolia and the rest of the world. For example, the new types of work, automatization, globalization, and digital revolution. These things affect Mongolia, which is part of the globalized world. The question we faced was from our expertise and experience, how can we assist and provide advice to the government and social partners in trying to make this labor law fit for purpose and those challenges the world of work is facing.

________________________________________________________________________

...There are challenges arising from not only the transition to a market economy but also many other challenges that are affecting Mongolia and the rest of the world. For example, the new types of work, automatization, globalization, and digital revolution. These things affect Mongolia, which is part of the globalized world...

________________________________________________________________________

In general, how would you evaluate Mongolia's current Labor Law? I think it’s good that the law is being revised because I understand that the last one was approved in 1999 but had minor amendments until now. I think that the law needs to be updated as the situation has changed so much since 1999. It’s a good time to consult with a wide range of people. It is important to have a Labor Law that is fit and up to the challenges that Mongolia is currently facing both on the economic and social side. Thirty percent of Mongolians are in poverty and the unemployment rate is at around 10 percent. I understand that there are issues of youth employment so it’s necessary to enable environments that can help and support the economy and protect the public, particularly the most vulnerable people in the society, such as disabled people, youth, and women with children. When you have a good Labor Law, it will protect these vulnerable people while enabling businesses to grow. What are the specific challenges faced in Mongolia? Challenges in Mongolia include the transition process, growth of the informal economy, ensuring the people who really need protection are not left in the situation of informal economy, and addressing the dispute mechanism. We have been trying to look at different experiences in different countries for resolving these issues, as well as issues concerning child labor, forced labor and collective bargaining, and share these experiences with people in Mongolia so that they could find their own way out. Can you tell me what kinds of projects ILO is implementing in Mongolia? So far, we’ve been involved in strengthening tripartism, revision of the Labor Law, and implementation of projects on fundamental principles and rights at work with the European Union which is the main criteria for EU Generalized Scheme of Preferences (GSP+). GSP+ is a trade scheme that gives some trade preferences to Mongolia to export to the EU provided that Mongolia and other countries ratify a number of international conventions. There are 27 international conventions in total and eight of them are ILO conventions. What we’re doing now is support Mongolia's capacity to report on the implementation of ratified conventions. We’re also supporting the National Statistics Office to align the current Labor Force survey with international standards and practice. Currently, we’re piloting the new methodology of the Labor Force Survey. This is the second piloting and we hope that it is completed successfully and the new survey is launched next year. The ILO is supporting the National Statistics Office to define a baseline of SDG indicators that are related to decent work. The report on Decent Work Profile we will be launching in the second half of the year. In order to track the achievement towards SDGs, it’s very important to put in place a good statistics methodology so we’re supporting the National Statistics Office on that. On the youth employment part, we have supported the establishment of The National Network on Promotion for Decent Work for Youth in Mongolia. We’re working closely with the Confederation of Mongolian Trade Unions’ Youth Council, the Family, Child and Youth Development Agency, UN Youth Advisory Panel, and other youth NGOs to promote the rights at work of young people. Last week, we organized a training for trainers to raise awareness about the rights of young people at workplaces. There are ongoing three projects all related to the GSP+. How much are you investing in these activities? The average funding we disburse is approximately one million USD. It depends on the year. We make plans for two years and for two years’ span, we spend approximately one million USD. However, we had the technical cooperation project back in 2014 and 2016, which was a big project focused on the promotion of social protection and employment services. This project alone had a funding of one million USD. How would Mongolia benefit from GSP+? Mongolia has ratified the 27 international human rights and governance conventions which the prerequisite of paying fewer tariffs when exporting products to the EU. This is an incentive the EU is giving to some countries to help them better comply with international commitments. What is ILO’s standpoint on child jockeys? Is there any update on the recent issue concerning Dunjingarav horse race? ILO has two conventions on child labor – Convention No.138 on the minimum age for admission to employment and work and Convention No.182 on the worst forms of child labor. Mongolia has ratified both of them. The government has agreed to prohibit child labor in hazardous conditions. Child jockey in winter is dangerous for children and there were some children severely injured in a horse race. The Committee of Experts has given some comments on the child jockey issue. They mentioned that no child should be used as a jockey because the nature of the sport itself is very dangerous to children’s safety and health. To use a child as a jockey, the child must be at least 16 years old or older and he/she must be trained and their safety must be ensured properly. If there is any risk or hazard, using a child must be stopped immediately. The government has to respond to this observation of the Committee of Experts by September 1 this year. So far, the Mongolian Government has been submitting reports on ILO conventions on time. The information we have related to the Dunjingarav horse race is to the extent of what has been reported in the news. How will you celebrate the 50th anniversary of Mongolia becoming a member of the ILO? The 50th anniversary also marks the Mongolian tripartite constituent of government workers and employers, which was signed on May 24, 1968. It is our joint celebration because we are the ones who worked together for 50 years and ILO is always here to support. We don’t want to be precise about the dates of events we plan together to have for the 50th anniversary, but we will have some events this fall, including a high-level meeting, and essay and photo contest on the topic “The Future of Work”. This year is the 50th anniversary in Mongolia, but next year, ILO will become 100 years old. The topic that has been chosen by our Director General is “The Future of Work”. There’s going to be a lot of celebrations and events in the 187 member countries.